Dear Datalounge...Please tell me about Jacqueline Susann

There's a thread about the film and it made me realise who little I know about her, especially from a gay perspective.

Did she ever have to back pedal on all those 'fag' references in her book? Weren't gays offended, as well as amused?

Was she a homophobe...or (more likely) a fag hag?

What's her story?

She looks like a truck driver in drag.

On her book Valley of the Dolls: That's not writing, that's typing.

She was a dyke and a star-fucker who cozied up to Ethel Merman on the false assumption that Merman was also a dyke. Merman dropped her as a friend and Susann paid her back by creating Helen Lawson who was unmistakably (and somewhat unfairly) based on Ethel.

She should have cozied up to me instead.

There were reports about her and Ethel Merman.

"Fag" and "faggot" were considered hip terms in the late 60s and early 70s by many writers and public figures, who used it in a sense that was more to connote familiarity rather than hatred (although there was certainly an overlay of contemptuousness to it). Pauline Kael and Renata Adler and Barbra Streisand used it as well as Susann; all of them borrowed it from gay friends of theirs. In saying this I mean less to excuse it than to say they were trying to be more hip and fashionable rather than to be mean; Kael later disavowed it (and I'm sure Streisand did once she discovered she had a gay son) , but Susann died young before she was taken to task for it.

[quote]"Fag" and "faggot" were considered hip terms in the late 60s and early 70s

& what do they mean by 'You're on dope'?

What was dope, pot?

There was a fabulous biography of her called LOVELY ME published in the 1990s. Her husband, Irving Mansfield, also published a fun memoir called LIFE WITH JACKIE. Both worth reading (and probably available for pennies on Amazon).

If I remember it correctly, LOVELY ME has the story of a drunken Jackie chasing Ethel Merman up some stairs toward where a party was being held, pleading with her. Ethel got in the room first, closed and locked the door, and announced to the assemblage: "That woman is a dyke."

I always felt bad for her as everything she did sincerely always ended up blowing up in her face

[quote]the story of a drunken Jackie chasing Ethel Merman up some stairs toward where a party was being held, pleading with her. Ethel got in the room first, closed and locked the door, and announced to the assemblage: "That woman is a dyke."

Many of these posts sound straight out of the movie.

Rex Reed was one of her best friends.

Her father, Robert Susann, was a prominent portrait painter.

[quote]Rex Reed was one of her best friends.

OMG! This is turning out WAY better than I would have imagined.

Lovely Me is a fantastic biography, very gossipy and tons of fun anecdotes. Jackie lived a life much like one of her novels. I like The Love Machine even more than I do Valley of the Dolls.

Jackie admitted to having had an affair with Carole Landis, the actress who committed suicide when Rex Harrison would not marry her.

When Barbara Parkins posed for Playboy, Jackie took one look at the pictures and exclaimed "Jesus Christ, she's got a purple bird!"

The Love Machine was supposed to star Brian "Flipper" Kelly, but he was replaced after an accident by John Philip Law.

[quote]drunken Jackie chasing Ethel Merman up some stairs toward where a party was being held, pleading with her. Ethel got in the room first, closed and locked the door, and announced to the assemblage: "That woman is a dyke."

Imagining Merman announcing that, with that voice of hers and her truck-drivery delivery, has made my afternoon.

[quote] I like The Love Machine even more than I do Valley of the Dolls.

The movie or the book...or both?

She was an ambitious failed actress and, yes, a starfucker. Very sexual: her unconventional parents had an open marriage. Whether she did or didn't actually have an affair with Merman (who was Catholic and quite conservative) is unclear; Susann had been obsessed with her.

She always struck me as being more intelligent than her writing might suggest. Her real genius was self-promotion.

[quote]The movie or the book...or both?

Just the book, nothing beats the movie version of VOTD. That's just a non-stop riot from start to finish. The movie version of TLM has its moments, but just can't compare to the unintentional hilariousity of VOTD.

One funny anecdote I remember from Lovely Me - There's a central character in The Love Machine who's a high-class socialite, based on Babe Paley. Jacqueline Susann actually wanted Grace Kelly (!) to come out of retirement to play the character. She was totally serious. Dyan Cannon was cast instead, and Jackie thought that Dyan wasn't "classy" enough for the character, and didn't like her at all.

[quote] Jacqueline Susann actually wanted Grace Kelly (!)

GREAT casting!

[quote] Dyan Cannon was cast instead, and Jackie thought that Dyan wasn't "classy" enough for the character

She was right.

It's too bad the movie version of THE LOVE MACHINE never comes close to the camp value of VALLEY. I found it really dull, but I like the novel a lot.

[quote]The Love Machine was supposed to star Brian "Flipper" Kelly,

Brian Kelly was the uncle of Broadway star Brian D'Arcy James.

No one's mentioned "Isn't She Great," the biopic with Bette Midler and Nathan Lane?

Thar film skimped on Josephine, r25, the best part of her life.

They barely touched on her autistic son.

Poor kid -- what more could they have said?

Is her autistic son, Guy, still alive?

I dug out my old copy of LOVELY ME and turned to the Merman section. I'd forgotten this:

[quote]When Ethel admitted she was having trouble with the bumps and grinds she had to do in one scene in GYPSY, Jackie dug out her infamous bikini from BETWEEN THE COVERS and put it on under a button-down dress. She wore it to Ethel's apartment at the Park Lane Hotel, and once inside dropped the dress. ... It was a highly erotic performance, and whether it taught Ethel how to strip or not, it certainly turned Jackie on. Ironically, Ethel became the central passion of her life from that moment, a fixation that would become the subject of much gossip in their Broadway world.

It's a juicy book. On the next page the author write about the maturation of Jackie's autistic son and how he would rub on her when he had erections, which she put up with because it was the only sign of affection he'd ever shown her. LORD.

Great threat, but I fear R30 has veered into TMI.. Realize it's in the book; yes, LORD.

[quote]That film skimped on Josephine, [R25], the best part of her life.

I just saw the film.

I liked it & Bette and whatisname were great - but I wondered why they skimped on Josephine too and spent so much time schlepping to Central Park to talk to God. She'd already had a hit book with Josephine, so it was inaccurate.

Susann does seem very cold and mean from what I get of her in real life.

There's also a mention in Lovely Me of Ethel and Jackie making out in front of everyone at a drunken party but apparently no sex. Jackie took it all seriously and eventually Merman did call her a dyke.

God, Ethel Merman ...of all people to get the hots for.

[quote]Merman (who was Catholic and quite conservative)

Merman was Episcopalian, not Catholic.

How did Brenda Vaccaro get an Oscar nod for Once is Not Enough?

nobody even remember that movie anymore.

Isn’t She Great isn’t great. It’s a fucking bore made with the limited ambition of splashing glossy nostalgia. Midler is awful, and the script can’t even approximate the Ethel Merman craziness and the tragedy of the autistic son. They play much of it as camp, not understanding that camp made consciously fails nearly every time.

It may be impossible to find, but the TV movie produced by and starring Michele Lee is a thousand times better. You get Merman-crush insanity, a genuinely moving look at the deep sorrow she felt as a mother institutionalizing her only child, and some insight into how she faced terminal illness at the end of her life.

Lovely Me is a fascinating read. The story of Susann, like that of Jayne Mansfield, foretells the quest for “mass love” (Susann’s term) that we experience today with incessant social media self-promotion.

I just cannot wrap my head around someone becoming sexually obsessed with Ethel Merman, of all people! WTF?

I have seen both the Bette Midler movie, which is treacle and stilted comedy, and the LIfetime movie discussed at the link at r38. The latter is sheer TV movie pap, yet still better than the cinematic one.

R39, I recall a scene with an overwrought Michele Lee on foot chasing down Ethel Merman fleeing from a party in a limo, as Lee goes for broke in the middle of the road, primal screaming, “Ethel! ETHEL! I love you! ETHELLLLLLL!”

Variety really hated it, though.

What her life story really cries out for is a full season bio in the vein of Ryan Murphy’s Feud.

Ideas for casting Jacqueline Susann?

^ Not Sarah Paulson.

Forty or fifty - or sixty - years ago Sylvia Miles would have worked, but at age 93, Miles has slightly passed plausibility since JS died at 56.

Who is the 2018 version of the 1970 Sylvia Miles?

Any movie dramatization of her novels or life is better than the 80s miniseries erosión of VotD, starring Lisa Hatman, Veronica Hamel, and DL’s very own Nurse Catherine Hicks!

Sandra Bullock looks enough like Susann, but I don't know if the character would be right for her.

If they'd made her biopic in the late 80s or early 90s, Mercedes Ruehl was a dead ringer.

MR would have been perfect.

Wendi McLendon-Covey in a black wig might work, but I’ve only seen her in fairly broad comedic roles.

Just aiming for outrageousness wouldn’t make it any better than the Bette Midler movie.

Her husband Irving needs to be cast as well.

[quote]Sandra Bullock looks enough like Susann, but I don't know if the character would be right for her.

She's an awful actress. She wouldn't get her at all.

Ryan Murphy could have a field day casting the stars that JS latched onto.

Susan Sarandon can return as Bette Davis.

And Jessica Lange can reprise her Joan Crawford.

They’ll need someone to pull off Doris Day at her peak of seventies fashion.

Leah Remini might e an interesting choice.

I’m old enough to remember Jacqueline Susann popping up on “Love American Style”, playing herself in an episode with Martha Raye!

Dyan Cannon was miscast in the film version of “The Love Machine”, which remains my favorite of her books. It’s also the only one with the closest thing to a happy ending. The ending of “Once is Not Enough” is very sad — in fact, that whole book had a very sad tone.

Say, has anyone on DL ever heard of the character Helen Lawson?

A full series would allow for Judy Garland getting fired, Susan Hayward getting hired, and Ethel Merman reacting to herself as a thinly veiled roman á clef character.

Helen Lawson in triplicate.

Kathy Bates would make a way better Merm than a Joan Blondell.

Imagine being her voice coach for the role,

Lance Bass hands down for Ethel Merman

Lindsay Lohan’s great comeback as Patry Duke as Neely O’Hara.

It would make great press when she gets fired like Judy at the start of filming.

Demi Moore as Susan Hayward as Helen Lawson.

Just as an aside - didn’t know till I saw the post earlier that Flipper actor Brian Kelly was supposed to play Robin Stone in The Love Machine. Kelly was a huge daddy-crush of mine when I was a gayling watching reruns of Flipper - so did a google search to find out WHET...

Odd wiki entry! Suspect it’s leaving out a lot of juicy info as Sussan supposedly said stuff like ‘Kelly IS Robin Stone’ - so he must’ve spread the joy around a lot back in his Hollywood days. And really odd/funny was the reason given his first wife divorced him: because she found out he was planning a reboot of Flipper - set in space...

So yeah - the guy is the ‘love machine’(big male slut) - and that she could deal with. But Flipper in space was just a bridge too far... lol!

He would have made a great Hollywood fuck stallion.

I didn’t know that he’d been partially paralyzed in a motor accident.

His wife was kinda right, though: Flipper in space would have been really fucking stupid unless you wanted to get high before watching it. Plus, he looks better in a swimsuit as opposed to a bulky spacesuit.

Additionally, Kelly’s replacement on “The Love Machine”, John Phillip Law, was hired so hastily that he was jammed into Kelly’s wardrobe, even though he was taller than Kelly.

I remember watching Jacqueline Susann on the Merv Griffin Show when I was child in the 1970s.

Jacqueline has become a parody of the Hollywood Star she had so desperately wanted to be -

Jacqueline came across as overly-tanned, a little drunk and often tranquilized, constantly smoking observer of the Hollywood scene - making snarky but insightful comments - while the obsequious Merv fawned all over her...

But underneath it all Jacqueline just seemed so sad that she had never made it - she never became a real Hollywood star, an real insider...she never seemed comfortable in her own skin

There was always this sense of sadness that Jacqueline had settled - forever being an observer, a writer, a wit, a bon vivant - always on OUTSIDE looking IN

The movie "Valley of the Dolls" was huge in 1967 - there was so much hype, excitement, gossip - I don't remember many other movies that created so much buzz.

The studio arranged a huge shipboard World Premier Cruise to promote the movie - all the stars and the press would sail on the maiden voyage of the Italia from Italy to California...

The studio PR machine thought the long voyage would create weeks of good publicity as reporters sent daily reports from the ship of the movie stars mingling with the press and fortunate public aboard the luxurious Italia as it sailed to California

As they crossed the Atlantic, the night finally came for the big night - the premier of "The Valley of the Dolls"

And it was...a dud...while the movie became a camp classic..everyone who saw it that first night knew the movie was not well-made and would never live up to expectations

The long World Premiere Valley of the Dolls cruise became a PR nightmare.

Jacqueline Susann locked herself in her cabin after the movie was shown and refused to come out for the remainder of the cruise

Wow, I never realized that Valley of the Dolls was released in 1967 - barely a year after Patty Duke finished her run in The Patty Duke show that ended in 1966.

That must've been shocking for sweet little Patty/Cathy to be cast in such a scandalous movie that promised to show America what the DECADENT Hollywood life was really all about.

R2, I thought despite rumors neither of them were actually bisexual or even lesbian? Have you read Valley of the dolls OP or watched the film?

^ That post is nearly three years old!

But I am enjoying the thread’s resurgence.

R67 - That reminds me of when Liz threw up in the bathroom at the theater during intermission at the premiere of Cleopatra.

Valley of the Dolls is more awful than Cleopatra, but it’s also far more enjoyable.

Jackie really rocked that 60s look.

I think they should make a movie about the making of this film, and the disastrous reception, similar to the disaster artist. Casting ideas?

R74, there are many such suggestions upthread.

r74 that's a great idea for a film.

There are choice bitchy queen parts in her story for a Truman Capote and a Gore Vidal.

Ariana Grande could turn in as lifeless a performance as Barbara Parkins as Parkins gave as Anne.

Isn’t Margot Robbie already doing Sharon Tate for Tarantino’s Manson movie?

[quote]I think they should make a movie about the making of this film, and the disastrous reception, similar to the disaster artist.

Masses of fodder in the DVD extras. MASSES.

Sarah Jessica Parker as Susann!

They'd have to find a way to hide her hands and feet though...

I read Valley of the Dolls, don't think it was terrible, it was an interesting look into the past (especially the use of the terms 'fag' and 'faggot' by Neely - it's just conversational). I'm curious about her later works and if they sit side by side with Jackie Collins and Harold Robbins or if Susann's work paved the way for Collins and Robbins.

Who could play a 50-ish Susan Hayward in r74's movie? You don't have to limit your choices to biological women.

R82 For some reason I think Olivia Williams could pull it off, even though there is not a strong resemblance.

First of all, Jackie could only be played by a male. No female could do the part justice.

"Isn't She Great?" was sentimental crap--dragon Jackie and horrible hubby played cute by Bette Midler and Nathan Lane (!). You can say many things about Jacqueline Susann, but she was not cute.

And why is everyone ignoring and dissing "Once Is Not Enough," a movie I love? Alexis Smith and Melina Mercouri as lesbian lovers???? Are you really looking for more in a movie? Well, this one has George Hamilton and Kirk Douglas, and Brenda Vaccaro as an editor at Gloss magazine! "He said I was a great lay but a lousy editor!" she wails at one point.

I could watch it again right this minute.

I'm so glad to get all this off my chest!

Fun thread. Thanks to all the great contributors.

Okay datalounge who do you think could play Patty Duke?

[italic]The Love Machine[/italic] . . . [bold]RATED R![/bold]

I liked The Love Machine even more than Valley of the Dolls. The novel, that is.

One thing Isn't She Great got right -- how she founded modern book marketing. She turned writers into performing artists, which is sad, but I understand why she did it for herself.

Yes, Jackie and her husband Irving invented the book tour, and promoting a book as if it were a movie or an album. That really rocked the publishing industry.

Bitch ate pussy like a champ.

R90 I can definitely see that.

R78 Kendall Jenner would work as Perkins. It's not like she would be any worse an actress.

I still like Every Night Josephine the best.

Her journey through vets was epic, as was the dog diet...

1) Jacqueline Susann would have been FURIOUS that Bette Midler was cast as her in a biopic. She would have insisted on a great BEAUTY playing her.

2) And, Susann alluding to Merman as a dyke was really mean. There's nothing anywhere to suggest that Merman was the slightest bit lesbian (except for Susann doing so with her characterization of Helen Lawson in the book). Merman was pretty much dick crazy and prone to picking guys who WERE dicks.

Susann was the dyke...not Merman.

Yes, Jackie would've hated that Midler was cast as her in the movie. Jackie would've wanted somebody like Sigourney Weaver. And she would've seen nothing inappropriate about that casting.

I agree, it would take a tough broad to play Susann

And she'd have to do it with that Jackie Kennedy late 60s hairdo and wearing those fabulous Pucini prints

While she smoked like a chimeny and slurred from her Dolls

Jackie was Jewish but pretended she was Catholic. She didn't like people knowing she was Jewish, which was pretty common back then.

There's an Irish actress named Shannon Keenan who would be perfect to play Doris Day. She has a fun YouTube channel.

R105 why are you talking about Doris Day?

She was a whore and a bore!

[quote]The ending of “Once is Not Enough” is very sad — in fact, that whole book had a very sad tone.

As Jackie was writing that book, she discovered her cancer had returned and was terminal. That's why there's a sad tone to it. She knew she had very little time left.

Susann also wrote a little book called Dolores, which was an unveiled rip-off of the life of Jackie Kennedy. Not a surprise that it never gets mentioned.

Brian Kelly groped my mother when they were both teenagers in Michigan.

In a biopic of her life who would play the middle aged Eddie Cantor?

I saw the Michelle Lee version and the screenplay was pretty good. Michelle was okay, obviously she's having fun in it, but does not come off as genuine as a power hungry dyke. They did manage to make it a little bit sordid for a TV film but I remember it being flat and boring. Nothing jumps out from the screen. The Bette Midler version is a whimsical comedy, and Bette is just all wrong. The biggest kicker is casting Stockard Channing as the sidekick who really does look the person born to have played Susann.

About Guy: Irving Mansfield and Jacqueline Susann had a son December 6, 1946. He seemed normal at first but gradually stop reaching milestones such as talking and making eye contact. Massive screaming and outbursts were contant. Irving said “He was the most delicious child in the world…. Then one day when he was 3½ he came out of the park screaming and only said one line the rest of his life.” One day Jackie had muttered, “Guy, when are you going to talk?” and was stunned when he blurted, “When I’m ready.” He never spoke again. After a diagnosis of autism, the Mansfields were devastated and took their child to doctor after doctor. Money was no object. They took him to Dr. Lauretta Bender, a highly respected child neuropsychiatrist practicing at Bellevue Hospital in New York City, who experimented extensively with electroshock therapy on children who had been diagnosed with “autistic schizophrenia.” Bender administered electroconvulsive therapy at levels meant for adults, sometimes three times that level, to at least 100 children ranging in age from three years old to 12 years, with some reports indicating the total may be twice that number. In the sixties she used LSD and many other drugs on children. She claimed good results with electroshock treatment, but privately Bender acknowledged disappointment in the aftereffects and results shown by the subject children. One ofBender’s young patients who became overly aggressive after about 20 treatments, now grown, was convicted in court as a “multiple murderer.” Others, in adulthood, reportedly were in and of trouble and prison for a battery of petty and violent crimes. A 1954 scientific study of about 50 of Bender’s young electroshock patients, conducted by two psychologists, found that nearly all were worse off after the “therapy” and that some had become suicidal after treatment. One of the children studied in 1954 was Guy Mansfield. When he was three years old, Dr. Bender convinced Susann and her husband that Guy could be successfully treated with electroshock therapy. Guy was later returned home from Bender’s care in Jaqueline’s words ” a nearly lifeless child, a limp ragdoll.” Susann later told people that Bender had “destroyed” her son. Guy was confined to an institution, in Rhode Island. The Mansfields visited their son without fail, every Sunday, for the rest of their lives.

Great on the old TV show Personality. It even beat out Hollywood Squares (on which she also appeared). , as a repository for the dregs and hasbeens of show business, At least she didn't guess all the gay things about Van Johnson.

[quote]I just cannot wrap my head around someone becoming sexually obsessed with Ethel Merman, of all people! WTF?

Who knew Ernest Borgnine posted here?

Brian Kelly was the daddy I always wanted. Even as a young child, I knew there was something about him that just did it for me. I remember one Flipper episode where some woman from his past came to visit but decided that life in Florida wasn't for her so she headed back to the city. My thought was, "What are you, crazy?!?"

Catherine Keener could play Susann.

I was in Oakland when Judy Garland died 50 years ago. Susan was a guest on a local talk show the next morning. She was obsessed with Garland also, so not just Merman .

Harold Robbins was a contemporary of Susann--she didn't pave anything for him.

This documentary has appeared on YT since this thread was posted

Mrs Patrick Campbell as Letecia Van Allen.

As much as the VOTD film was critically reviled, it was a hit where it counts--a commercial smash at the box office, the 7th highest grossing film of 1967.

Ted Casablana is not a fag. and I'm the dame who can prove it!

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